On October 9th, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame announced its fifteen nominees for induction in its class of 2015 (which is when the induction ceremony will take place.) They were:
- Bill Withers (1st nomination)
- Chic (9th (!!!) nomination)
- Green Day (1st nomination- 1st year eligible)
- Joan Jett and the Blackhearts (3rd nomination)
- Kraftwerk (3rd nomination)
- Lou Reed (3rd nomination)
- Nine Inch Nails (1st nomination- 1st year eligible)
- NWA (3rd nomination)
- Paul Butterfield Blues Band (4th nomination)
- Stevie Ray Vaughan (1st nomination)
- Sting (1st nomination)
- The Marvelettes (2nd nomination)
- The Smiths (1st nomination)
- The Spinners (2nd nomination)
- War (3rd nomination)
As some of you may remember, I put up my predictions in June. I fully expected to get 8 or 9 right of the 16 artists I predicted and establish myself as the Nate Silver of the Rock Hall enthusiasts. Instead, I ended up with a measly six- NWA, Green Day, Nine Inch Nails, Joan Jett, Lou Reed, and my one wild Hail-Mary guess I made, Bill Withers. Congratulations to Tom Lane, who predicted nine correctly. What went wrong? Firstly, I screwed up by not including a blues artist, and in the end, two of them- PBBB and SRV- were nominated. I also guessed wrong for some genres. I thought Sonic Youth was going to be their “80s artist who inspired alternative music” pick, and The Smiths got that spot instead. But more than that, I thought the Nominating Committee would emulate their 2014 ballot from last year, which was well received. (And by ‘well-received’, I mean that most people who commented on it said ‘It’s about time these guys were nominated’ rather than ‘This ballot is a travesty!’) Therefore, lots of my choices were on last year’s ballot and didn’t get picked this year. Deep Purple. Yes. The Zombies. Link Wray. Which leads me to my thoughts on the ballot this year. I am disappointed by it, but not for the reasons you might expect.
One on one, there are lots of worthy artists who are up for consideration. A few weeks ago, I listed the 192 artists who I thought already belonged in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as of 2014, and Bill Withers, Chic, Kraftwerk, NWA, Stevie Ray, The Smiths, The Spinners, and War were on my list- that’s 8 of the 15 right there. If I were allowed to add artists eligible this year, Green Day would have made the list as well, and I would have given serious consideration to Nine Inch Nails. But you know how in jazz music, you have to hear the notes they aren’t playing? When you look at the ballot, you have to consider the artists- and the genres- who weren’t nominated. There isn’t a single true classic rock artist on here. Now, Philip over at Rock Hall Monitors points out that one reason the Nom Com is reticent to include more classic rock artists is because the big no-brainers (The Who, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Queen, Aerosmith, etc.) were all inducted a long time ago. And he’s right. But to include zero artists who belong in classic rock, progressive rock, or metal on a given year is a major oversight. Fans of all three genres have been seriously pissed off at the Rock Hall for taking their sweet time inducting Rush, Genesis, and Kiss, nominating Deep Purple and Yes, and ignoring Iron Maiden, Jethro Tull, Moody Blues, and Cheap Trick entirely. Seriously- go to a classic rock forum right now. I’ll wait. See what they are saying about the Hall of Fame ballot this year.
They are hella unhappy, right? And for once, I think their anger is justified. Classic rock and prog rock and metal fans can be childish and juvenile sometime, but in this case, their complaints are quite valid. For years, the Nominating Committee has been charged with elitism and favoritism, inducting their friends or their private record collections. The last couple years, it looked like the Rock Hall was addressing these concerns, acknowledging that they had, by their own bad judgment, becoming a laughingstock, had took positive steps to nominate Deep Purple, Yes, Rush, Kiss, Hall and Oates, and other artists hated by many critics but still loved by vigorous fan bases today. I just feel that the Rock Hall threw all that goodwill out the window with this ballot. It almost seems like they intended to thumb their nose at the casual fan and the classic rock hobbyist and tell them, “we know quality music– you don’t– here are the nominees.” With the exceptions of Stevie Ray and maybe the Smiths, nobody was clamoring to get any of these older artists in. The Nom Com had a great opportunity to telegraph support for the social media and the wider public by nominating Janet Jackson. The Induct Janet group has tens of thousands of Facebook followers, and its leaders did everything right- maintaining a respectful tone, getting celebrity support, doing interviews, making a case for her legacy, and most importantly, mobilizing and exciting a group of consumers who would have gladly ponied up the money to go to Cleveland and see Janet enshrined. And it didn’t pay off. That’s terrible. It’s not a tragedy, in an age of ISIS, Ebola, and Boko Haram, but it is a naked demonstration that the spirit of rock and roll can be snuffed out in committee rooms and in-clubs.
My dream- and this is a very idyllic dream- is that Rock Hall membership could be a conversation between the public and the experts. The Nom Com needs to stop holding the public in contempt, stop renominating personal favorites on an endless loop (PBBB, Chic, J. Geils Band), and maybe spend more time talking to music fans who don’t produce, make, or write about music for a living, but for whom music is an essential part of their lives. And for their part, I wish classic rock enthusiasts and metal-heads would be willing to explore some of the artists critics praise, listen actively outside their comfort zone, and embrace R&B, hip-hop, soul, disco, electronic, and yes, even rap, as part of the same broad family tree that looks to rock and roll as a common ancestor. There’s no question for me that these genres deserve consideration for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but it should happen alongside of, and not at the expense of, classic rock, prog rock, metal and other genres that were snubbed this year, including folk and early rock and roll. I’ll look at the 15 nominated artists, one by one, in Part II, but I’ll conclude with a few random thoughts:
- Potentially, we could have three members joining the Clyde McPhatter Club for artists inducted twice. Sting is already in with the Police, Lou Reed is already in with Velvet Underground, and it is possible that War’s lineup might include Eric Burden, who was inducted way back in 1994 with The Animals.
- My colleague Donnie pointed out that the Hall is perceptibly moving past the 60s and 70s. If Green Day, Nine Inch Nails, NWA, Stevie Ray, The Smiths, and Sting are inducted- an entirely plausible scenario- you’d have six artists who released their debut records after 1980.
- I was right about one thing- LL Cool J wouldn’t be on this ballot. Presumably, this is because the Nom Com wanted a clear path for NWA, and Cool J would take away some votes that would ordinarily go to him. It’s similar to last year, where Linda Ronstadt was the only woman on the ballot, so they could get her in the Hall of Fame while she was still alive. Which brings me to…
- Only two women on this ballot- not counting the Chic vocalists- and its Joan Jett and the Marvelettes. I don’t like this either. Neither has that great a chance of actually being inducted, making it very likely that the Class of 2015 will be another sausage-fest for a Hall that doesn’t have enough female acts.
I know that the only reason Chic is getting nominated is because of Nile Rodgers, but I really am quite sick of Chic being dismissed as not being a female nominnee, with the female singers only getting mentioned parenthetically. Without those singers, Chic is an instrumental group, and there weren’t too many continually successful instrumental acts with chart presence in the late ’70s. That was more of a ’50s, and ’60s thing. I firmly believe that if it wasn’t for those singers, Chic would have been written off as a novelty instrumental act, or would have been relegated to movie scores. For those who don’t know about Rodgers and Edwards’ buddy-buddy status with Hall Of Fame powers-that-be, Chic is more “disco girl group” than “disco band.” Again, Nile is the reason they’re being nominated, but don’t trivialize all the members’ contributions. Singers are part of the band, and Chic is a co-ed disco band.
Thanks for the mention, btw. I just put up my reaction to the ballot on my blog as well.
I see your point, Phil. I would argue, though, that the Chic vocalists, while proficient, aren’t really exceptional- in other words, their ‘value over replacement player’ as vocalists isn’t all that high, while Rodgers and Edwards were extraordinary arrangers, producers, and musicians. Many music fans can’t even tell you who the vocalists are without looking it up on Wikipedia, which tells you something. But sure, ‘co-ed band’ is a fair designation, bringing our number of female nominees up to… 2.5?
Many music fans can’t name Rodgers or Edwards either, and don’t know any lyrics to “Le Freak” other than “Ahhh freak out… le freak, c’est chic.” And if I’m not mistaken, there were more women in Chic than in the Blackhearts. Just saying, it’s not all about who the big names in the band are, though they help. Sorry for the snark, but I feel my point is valid. Not everyone can name all the members of Aerosmith, but you wouldn’t just induct Tyler/Perry (Tee hee…. Tyler Perry)
And your point -is- valid. Let me just say this, and I’ll let you have the final word after, if you like. It’s not that the vocalists in Chic are obscure- that’s fine- it’s that they are not distinct. If you take away Ronnie Spector’s seductive voice, you’ve ruined the Ronettes. Or, to maybe use a better comparison, consider the Mamas and the Papas. The Papas did the writing and the instrumentation, but if you take away Mama Cass’s booming voice, the group is dramatically different, and very much for the worse. I just don’t see the Chic ladies, (some combo of Alfa, Norma Jean, and Luci, depending on which era) as being that distinctive. You could replace them with just about any pop-friendly R&B voice, and the essential sound would probably be the same.
Personally I zero problem with the lack of a ton Classic Rock nominations for this round. I too was at first disappointed that Deep Purple was not present on the nomination list, but after thinking about it I was actually fine with their choices. For one, Stevie Ray Vaughn and Joan Jett are totally Classic Rock nominations. They are played all the time on Classic Rock stations. Also, I feel like the Hall has done an excellent job in making the genres that make up Classic Rock (Prog, Hard Rock, etc) an emphasis the past five years. This goes back all the way to Genesis in 2010, Alice Cooper in 2011, Guns N Roses in 2012, Rush and Heart in 2013 and lastly KISS and Peter Gabriel last year. They have done a great job with easing some of the Classic Rock backlog that had accumulated. Plus, usually when there is outrage about them snubbing a genre, they almost always correct it the next year so I would except at least 2-3 pure Classic Rawk acts next year. Lastly I don’t feel like the Rock Hall should go out of there way to make Eddie Trunk and his minions happy. Personally I can’t stand the guy and I don’t think he knows much about music other than his niche.
It is now time to do the same with R&B and Alternative Rock that they did with Classic Rock and make an push with these genres. Both of these genres have been essentially ignored during that some time period. Really the only R&B act to have been inducted since 2010 has been Hall & Oates last year. Also I can’t imagine it looked good for the Hall to have Clarence Clemons as the only person of color inducted last year.
While Alternative Rock has pretty much only seen the obvious choices get in with The Stooges in 2010, Red Hot Chili Peppers in 2012 and Nirvana last year. 80’s Alternative other than R.E.M. and U2 have been essentially ignored. Fixing this by getting The Smiths, The Cure, The Replacements, Joy Division and Sonic Youth in is more important to me than making sure that Deep Purple and Yes finally get in.
You know, Philip and I have had this conversation before, and I think my narrow definition of classic rock comes from the fact that the only classic rock station in my media market growing up (Albany, NY area) took a very narrow view. I don’t think I have ever heard Joan Jett or SRV play on it. But I can completely see other stations doing that. It goes to show what an amorphous genre classic rock is.
And you are correct in saying that R&B really got the shaft these last few years. Here’s hoping Bill Withers, War, and The Spinners don’t cancel each other out. Even still, one clear-cut, no-doubt-about-it classic rock nominee like Deep Purple or Boston or Steve Miller would have been both deserving and diplomatically wise. Like it or not, the public still associates these acts from the 70s as the ones that most authentically carried the rock and roll torch through the Nixon-Ford era. Eddie Trunk will never be satisfied until his borderline-white-supremacy definition of rock and roll is validated, but there are a lot of classic rock fans who, with the right kind of engagement, could be in dialogue with, rather than in retrenchment against, the Rock Hall.
Yeah, from where I sit, SRV, War, Joan Jett And The Blackhearts, and even Lou Reed (well, one song) all fit the classic rock radio bill for me. And honestly, I feel more classic rock fans would be receptive to R&B/soul acts getting in as well if the Hall would just induct more acts each year. There’s room for both the Spinners and Deep Purple; Boston and Barry White, just not within the current parameters of the voting method.
Agree completely. If nobody argues that The Temptations aren’t ‘rock and roll’, I can’t see how The Spinners fail to qualify.
Clarence Clemons wasn’t the only person of color inducted in 2014. David Sancious was inducted too!!
Hey Alex.
That was me that brought up the possibility that this could be the first class to have nothing, but 80’s and 90’s nominees. That’s actually my predicted class. Green Day, Nine Inch Nails, SRV, N.W.A., Joan Jett and the Blackhearts, and Sting. I agree whole-heartedly that there’s a serious lack of legit classic rock acts. And Sting has no reason to go in the HOF as a solo artist, other than that he’s a big name draw.
Right- Sting will get more HBO viewers than, say, The Spinners. And I’ll revise my post to give you credit.
Nice read! I found it odd that there were only 15 nominees since there 16 last year. The NomCom has such a backlog of deserving artists that it would have been nice to see an extra artist (or 2) included.
The #InductJanet campaign certainly made some noise. I’d be curious to learn if Janet was a serious contender in this latest NomCom meetings.
This are solid predictions, Donnie. If they induct a seventh artist, who would be your #7?
Thanks, Mike! The Nom Com meetings are kept under wraps, but I know Questlove committed to Janet via Twitter. At the same time, Questlove made noise about Bill Withers, NWA, Sonic Youth, Average White Band, and Link Wray, and tweeted War’s early 70s logo a couple days ago. Unfortunately, one man, even Questlove, only has so much influence.
And at any rate, the 2016 inductions will be in L.A., and that seems a very Janet-like place to be enshrined in the hall, no?
Yes, that certainly makes sense. And I’ve heard that theory mentioned a few other places, too. We shall see!
Alex, in your previous post you asked six other ‘movers-and-shakers’ to identify their 192 HoF-worthy acts, then combined these lists to determine which acts on the outside belonged on the inside.
My suggestion, at the time, was to rank selections, which among other things would identify whether The Moody Blues, Chicago, Stevie Ray Vaughan and The Spinners (your ‘experiment”s top four) would just barely limp into the 189, 190, 191 and 192 slots, or whether they would be more firmly embedded–say, in the 170s or even lower. This would make a stronger case for them, since any time numbers get beyond 100, let alone approach 200, there is bound to be increasing disagreement about which acts are worthy.
Perhaps a viable compromise, in the long-term, is to allow the Nom Com and HoF voting committee their say in defining ‘the best’ (which is probably how they see it) while at the same time, allowing the general public a say, as you suggest, that encourages input from the public.
Exactly what am I proposing? 1. Rank the HoF. 2. Open the floodgates. This two-pronged approach would keep the HoF voters in control, by allowing them to create a distinction between ‘great’ and ‘also ran’, while at the same time encouraging input from the public as additional acts are let in.
Possible? Probably not, though it would be fascinating to see what happened to the more obscure acts whose worthiness your ‘experiment’ identifies as questionable. It might also cut down to size a few pompous poseurs who have traded on their shock value, their willingness to seek out the simplest chord progressions, and their desire to mimic the latest fad. Most importantly, though, it would greatly enhance the HoF’s roll.
Perhaps a watered down version might be possible. A ‘gold’, ‘silver’ and ‘bronze’ approach would make ranking relatively easy, would add to the HoF voters’ ability to identify greatness and would still allow for movement between those three categories over time.
I like it! And I think, at the very least, voting totals need to be posted from the Rock Hall ballots. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
And I haven’t forgotten your idea of a ranking. I don’t think the others are on board, but give me a few weeks, and I will definitely have my 192 choices ranked.
p.s.- future rock legends, if you go to their site created a Rock Hall pyramid- creating, I think, five tiers of greatness a la Bill Simmons’ basketball pyramid.
Ok, I wasn’t sure what you meant by “value over replacement players” but I get what you’re saying, and I think there’s a bit of truth to that. Still, in an era when KISS members make waves because not every member being inducted, backing groups that were erroneously omitted being inducted, etc. you can’t downplay the importance of the singers in Chic. The vocalists are a big part of why we remember those songs (Yowzah, yowzah, yowzah, anyone?), and they’re every bit as important to their legacy, imo. Fwiw, there’s occasionally some pretty cookie-cutter instrumentation in Chic songs as well.